Dark Surgeon needs MAJOR buffs
lawlercopter last edited by lawlercopter
- In a perfect world, you can spam aoe healing constantly and forever while doing your full dps rotation in both ST and AOE situations.
- You can heal with pure instant casts which means you can never be kicked my mobs (can still be blanket silenced, obviously).
- You're a melee healer. There are SO MANY major disadvantages to this.
- Most/all other heals are 40 yds. Dark Surgeon heals are essentially melee range because you cannot heal for more than a few seconds without being in melee range and attacking to generate and spend combo points to heal.
- Being in melee constantly as a healer introduces an insane amount of annoyances that not a single other healer build in the game has to deal with. Mobs will gouge, stun, disarm, knockback, root etc. It feels like it happens constantly and there is always some stupid unavoidable mechanic preventing you from playing the game and healing. I did only 1 normal and 2 heroic runs and it was an absolute nightmare.
- I wanted to make a special note about disarm. When disarmed we basically cannot heal because we cannot generate combo points without a weapon.
- In addition to the melee CC that gets spammed on you throughout a dungeon, being in melee range means you cannot ever avoid things like certain fears and silences that have a limited range. Normal healers can take advantage of their 30-40yd heals to avoid many mechanics.
- Even if everything else above wasn't something you had to deal with, the next major issue is that your heals can essentially miss. You can't heal without generating and spending combo points. This means you have to also stack a ton of hit and expertise or you're going to have a bad time.
- Another major issue is that combo points are a pain in the ass to use in this version of WoW. The two big issues are that combo points don't transfer between mobs and they can't be used after a mob has died like in more modern versions of WoW. Just in my three runs it was constantly a struggle to find a mob with high hp I can attack just so I can do my damn job and heal. If another player kills a mob you were about to spend 5 combo points on it can start a chain reaction that you cannot recover from because spending combo points not only heals the entire party but it replenishes a large amount of energy (via talents/res) which allows you to get a jump start on building more combo points to heal again.
- You have the lowest mana pool and passive mana regen out of any healer. One major problem with this is that it's typically the healers job to cleanse and dispel the group of the insane amounts of poisons, diseases, curses, and magic effects that are spammed on everyone throughout dungeons. You just don't have the mana pool to do this properly. If the mobs die too fast, in addition to all the other problems listed above, you just simply cannot generate mana in order to heal your group both during and between pulls.
- Agility / Strength primary attribute means that you have a 6 second dispel/cleanse instead of 3 second like every other healer has.
I really, really want to like this build. On paper it's such a cool and interesting healer. A full dps gear rogue healer that can simultaneously take advantage of all 3 resources ascension gives us: mana, rage, and energy. There are just WAY too many issues with the build that make it miserable to play however. This legendary RE needs many and major buffs. I propose you make it similar to mana forged barrier and give it some powerful PVE buffs and make it not work in PVP. Or just make two separate versions for PVE and PVP.
The combo point issue probably cannot be fixed because of the version of WoW that ascension is built on. However the other things can be fixed. I propose that you make the RE be changed to do the following:
- Provide a large amount of hit and expertise. Perhaps even just give you enough so you are capped and yellow attacks cannot fail to land for any reason. If this would make the build OP in terms of dps then just slap a damage done debuff on the RE like mana tanks get via the spell/aspect of the viper.
- Provide Immunity to all/most of the unavoidable CC that prevents you from doing your job. At the very least we need immunity to root and disarm. Ideally also gouge and knockback. All the mechanics that all the other healers don't ever have to deal with. Being in melee range already means you can't avoid the numerous short range silences, fears, and stuns. Having to deal with all the extra cc just makes this build truly miserable to play.
- Provide 3 second cleanse/dispels while using AGI/STR primary and also drastically reduce the mana cost of all the cleanse/dispel type abilities.
I haven't tried this RE in a raid but I suspect it would be much, much less miserable. I still wouldn't ever consider it viable because of all the issues above however.
This post is deleted!
Really surprised nobody has commented on this.
You're absolutely right that Dark Surgeon needs major buffs. After playing all kinds of variations, it's not competitive with other healing builds.
To make it competitive with other builds in raids, there needs to be an enchant that increases or uncaps the number of targets that Circle of Healing can heal.
Also, Dark Surgeon needs Renew support to really compete. Currently, healing with Holy Nova feels underwhelming outside of using it to help AoE large pulls so maybe make Holy Nova apply Renew to allies that it hits. And while you're at it, make renew tickrate scale with energy regen increases so stuff like Vitality is buffing it as well as making Adrenaline Rush an awesome healing cooldown for the build.
@VanceGallowz hmm something like
- your mutilate can not miss but make only 90% damage with both weapons
- and your Renew genearte 3 energy per heal and your holy nova have chance (25%) expand your renew to all target your holy nova healed
- Renew on you will be cancel every time you get fear or disarm but you no get this debuffs and your Renew now have 10 sec CD
with this can be mabe too op but can be more use and now what will be with fire healer (cauterizing flames) this is 1 target healer and miss good aoe heal (when you no use holy heals(priest with spirit like main stat))
I don't even know if a buff to your hit/expertise is required. It would make getting into the build easier but I had no problem healing lower keys and such without hit cap. Definitely feels bad to miss or get parried with this build but it was still capable of doing lower keys despite it.
The problem is that once you get better gear to be hit capped, that's when you're doing higher keys and raids and the healing is just not there. The healing itself needs revisions/buffs more than anything else.
@VanceGallowz sorry you can not have all i think Dark Surgeon should be like support healer and no main healer like cauterizing flames(same no main healer but support healer) and Dark Surgeon make good dps too = can not make same heal like 100% priest or paladin or shaman or druid healers (that is what i think)(need more heal power = use spirit and no str or agi )
Dark Surgeon make more heal than cauterizing flames
Dark Surgeon use agi and heal and same time make dps (heal in aoe)
cauterizing flames use int and can heal or dps (heal 1 target and 1x per 10 sec +- can heal in aoe)
now write what need more buff ?
(for more heal use nurturing instinct (45% agi = heal power(with RE)) + 2x earthliving weapon with talen and REs (+-500 heal power) + sheath of light (+25% melee AP = heal power) + judgement of light for some passive heals)(and can pick talent blessed recovery + martyrdom when you get some hits)
Sorry I don't understand your English
@VanceGallowz sorry you can't have everything, i think Dark Surgeon should be like a supportive healer and no main healer like cauterizing flames (same no main healer but supportive healer) and Dark Surgeon also do good dps = can't do the same treatment as 100% priest or paladin or shamanic or druid healers (that's what I think) (you need more healing power = use spirit and no str or agi )
Yes I understand now, thanks
I agree that it doesn't need to do Seed of Life level healing but if they want people to bring it to higher end content, then it needs to be capable of healing it effectively.
Dark Surgeon in its current state does such little HPS and has such difficulty keeping people alive in high (20+) keys and Ascended raids that nobody wants one in their group.
The issue is that:
You're required to be in melee which opens you up to the risk of stuns, disarms, silences, and gouges.
You have no blanket healing meaning that when you aren't able to constantly generate combo points for any given reason, you fall behind and people die. Your only big spot heal (instant Greater Heal) requires you to prep 3 stacks and again, if you're behind on building stacks, someone is dead.
Your main AoE heals don't target more than 5 players at a time, making it inherently terrible at healing raids. Holy Nova does terrible healing numbers and also doesn't heal people who are out of range.
So my question is, how is Dark Surgeon supposed to keep people alive with these drawbacks? The answer is that it can't. I don't expect it to have Seed of Life level throughput. It doesn't need to. It just needs to be more reliable.
but i no know i no like this energy healer
and for better heal i think need this in LRE
- your Renew genearte 2 energy per heal and your holy nova have chance (25%) expand your renew to all target your holy nova healed and your holy nova is now finisher move (all talents work (rogues/cat))(for balance all nature heals lose -15% heal)
- Renew on you(only on you) will be cancel every time you get fear, disarm, stuns, silences, and gouges but you no get this debuffs and your Renew now have 10 sec CD (on you)(+- get same debuff like power word: shield but for renew on you(healer) in pvp 2x more time(20 sec ))
with this when you have luck you will be perma imunite for fear, disarm, stuns, silences, and gouges
and with holy nova like finisher (rogue/cat) can use insta nature heals (with talent) but this heals will be less efective
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